[Emacspeak] Re: Introducing myself and a request

[Devin Prater <r.d.t.prater@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

WSLG is WSL2's GUI framework, allowing one to run GUI Linux apps in Windows, needed for sound and such to work.

Devin Prater

r.d.t.prater@xxxxxxxxxxx

gemini://tilde.pink/~devinprater/

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 10:13 AM John Covici <covici@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I wonder if you could get emacs to use speech dispatcher, that would
solve the problems.  What is wslg?

On Mon, 26 Jul 2021 11:04:48 -0400,
Devin Prater wrote:
>
> [1  <text/plain; UTF-8 (quoted-printable)>]
> On Windows, WSLG is the only option I've gotten to work, and it is too
> unresponsive to be useful as a daily tool. I'd recommend using it on Mac or
> Linux, although Voxin doesn't work on MacOS. If you want to try it though,
> just compile the outloud server instead of the espeak one, and I just put
> in my .emacs.el
> (voxin)
> after the
> (load-file "~/emacspeak/lisp/emacspeak-setup.el")
> directive. That's not the "proper" way, but it works for me when exporting
> environment variables doesn't.
>
> Devin Prater
> r.d.t.prater@xxxxxxxxxxx
> gemini://tilde.pink/~devinprater/
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 9:19 AM John Covici <covici@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > I have voxin here, how would I use emacspeak with that instead of
> > espeak which I do not like.  Also, if I were to use emacspeak and
> > there was a link,  and I was using emacs under the gui, would firefox
> > or chrome be able to open the link?
> >  I use emacs all the time with speakup, but it might be interesting to
> >  see what emacspeak is like under windows -- I use it on the Mac a
> >  lot.
> >
> > On Mon, 26 Jul 2021 09:28:26 -0400,
> > Devin Prater via Emacspeak wrote:
> > >
> > > [1  <multipart/alternative (7bit)>]
> > > [1.1  <text/plain; UTF-8 (quoted-printable)>]
> > > Definitely read the Emacspeak manual (C-e TAB). Read the Emacs manual,
> > > found in the buffer for *Info* (C-h i). As the Emacspeak manual says, the
> > > better you can use Emacs, the better you can use Emacspeak. Web browsing
> > is
> > > great for simple Google searches and stuff, but anything that requires
> > > _javascript_ won't work as well. However, many sites work without
> > _javascript_.
> > > I'm even able to do some accessibility testing of simple sites within
> > Emacs
> > > with Emacspeak. For Email, if you can get Gnus to work for you, you've
> > got
> > > a pretty good email interface. I still just use the Gmail web interface,
> > > because I'm just not as patient with technology as I once was, and want
> > to
> > > get work done rather than needing to configure every little thing.
> > > Thankfully, besides email, Emacs has pretty good defaults, and the
> > > customize system, (C-h SPC) is easy to work with, and I can get a pretty
> > > good Linux environment going in a day or two, complete with Emacspeak
> > with
> > > Voxin. But to your question, the Emacs and Emacspeak manuals should give
> > > you much of what you need, and trying things out will give you the rest.
> > > Devin Prater
> > > r.d.t.prater@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > gemini://tilde.pink/~devinprater/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 7:53 AM Cisco Tissera via Emacspeak <
> > > emacspeak@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello Tim and all,
> > > >
> > > > So, before reading this email, I decided to clean install Arch, with
> > mate
> > > > as my desktop environment, and pulseaudio as my audio server, and guess
> > > > what? it all got fixed! not just emacspeak, but even some other
> > problems I
> > > > was having with some apps not liking gtk4.
> > > > Now that everything's fixed though, some questions arise: other than
> > the
> > > > emacs tutorial, what tutorials would you recommend?
> > > > What packages would you recommend and how would I go about installing
> > them?
> > > > I am also having an interesting, mostly annoying, problem as well:
> > > > whenever I run emacspeak, every word it says, capital.
> > > > So, for example, capital welcome capital to capital gnu capital emacs.
> > > > Is there a way to fix that?
> > > > Thanks again for everything.
> > > > Best regards.
> > > > Francisco.
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 3:12 AM Tim Cross via Emacspeak <
> > > > emacspeak@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Hi Francisco,
> > > >>
> > > >> today I setup a virtual host running arcoLinux. I installed pipewire
> > and
> > > >> found that for some reason, the espeak
> > > >> server will not work with pipewire. I have no idea why it won't work -
> > > >> possibly espeak-ng needs to be built with
> > > >> native pipewire support or perhaps some other translation layer needs
> > to
> > > >> be installed. Problem is, I don't know enough
> > > >> about pipewire to diagnose the issue.
> > > >>
> > > >> At this point, I would say your out of luck with respect to using
> > > >> Emacspeak and pipewire.
> > > >>
> > > >> In case it is of interest to others, here is what I found.
> > > >>
> > > >>    - You can build the tclespeak.so library fine.
> > > >>    - when you run servers/espeak, you here espeak say "Espeak 1.50"
> > > >>    - At the % prompt, if you do q {Hello World} <ret> d <ret> the
> > server
> > > >>    just
> > > >>    hangs. No speech and the prompt does not return.
> > > >>    - If you then attempt to run Emacs with Emacspeak, all appears to
> > > >>    work, but after the initial "Esepak 1.50" announcement, you get no
> > speech
> > > >>    and no errors. Auditory icons with sox worked fine.
> > > >>
> > > >> I was running espeak and pipewire fro the official arch repositories.
> > > >> I've not yet tried using the packages from community/aur, which may be
> > > >> later and which may work better. My suspicion is that espeak needs to
> > be
> > > >> built with native pipewire support (previously, I found you could
> > build
> > > >> espeak with specific support for pulse, port audio or alsa. Not sure
> > if it
> > > >> yet has pipewire as another supported sound library.
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards,
> > > >>
> > > >> Tim
> > > >>
> > > >> â??
> > > >> *Tim Cross*
> > > >>
> > > >> *For gor sake stop laughing, this is serious!*
> > > >>
> > > >> * From*: Cisco Tissera via Emacspeak
> > > >> <%22Cisco+Tissera+via+Emacspeak%22+%3Cemacspeak@xxxxxxxxxxx%3E>
> > > >> * Subject*: [Emacspeak] Re: Introducing myself and a request
> > > >> * To*: Tim Cross <%22Tim+Cross%22+%3Ctheophilusx@xxxxxxxxxxx%3E>
> > > >> * Cc*: emacspeak@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > >> <%22emacspeak@xxxxxxxxxxx%22+%3Cemacspeak@xxxxxxxxxxx%3E>
> > > >> * Date*: Sat, 24 Jul 2021 21:36:14 +1000
> > > >> Hello there,
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks again for the answer, I got a step further!
> > > >> Now, when I start emacs, both from gui and terminal espeak speaks it's
> > > >> version, and what sounds like eloquence announces in my left ear,
> > this is
> > > >> emacspeak!
> > > >> However, when I try to navigate with arrows, tab, or anything else,
> > > >> nothing works. espeak doesn't talk, no sound icons can be heard
> > either.
> > > >> Any idea why?
> > > >> Thanks again, and thanks for the tip about replying to all, I read it,
> > > >> and I forgot about it.
> > > >> Best regards.
> > > >> Francisco.
> > > >>
> > > >> On Fri, Jul 23, 2021 at 8:28 AM Tim Cross <theophilusx@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Cisco Tissera <audiogamer2004@xxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> > Hello Tim and all,
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > Thanks for the answer.
> > > >>> > I'll begin answering your questions one by one:
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > Have you used Emacs before? Emacs is a bit different to most
> > editors
> > > >>> and can
> > > >>> > be a little daunting at first. Understanding what level of
> > familiarity
> > > >>> you
> > > >>> > have with the editor can help with deciding what level of
> > > >>> detail/information
> > > >>> > you need.
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > I haven't used Emacs before, no.
> > > >>> > I have heard that it is quite different from other editors around
> > > >>> here, but that's one reason why I am so curious to try it out.
> > > >>> > I like how Emacs can be extended to include or exclude certain
> > things.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> OK. You will want to go through the Emacs tutorial at some point. As
> > > >>> emacs is an old editor, some of the terms used can be a little
> > confusing
> > > >>> at first. This is partly due to the age of the editor and partly due
> > to
> > > >>> certain terminology being hijacked and changed. For example, what
> > other
> > > >>> systems call a window, emacs calls a frame and what emacs calls a
> > window
> > > >>> is more similar to what other systems call a pane or tab or even
> > buffer.
> > > >>> So a frame can have multiple windows and these windows will contain
> > > >>> buffers. You will also hear about key bindings (similar to shortcuts)
> > > >>> and many other unusual terms (like yank for copy). Thing is,
> > persevere
> > > >>> and you will get there. You will find the key bindings (shortcuts)
> > to be
> > > >>> a little strange, but avoid the temptation to change them initially.
> > > >>> There is actually a lot of logic and consistency in them once you
> > get to
> > > >>> know them. One thing great is that you can do everything just using
> > the
> > > >>> keyboard - much faster than using a mouse.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> > Are you running under a GUI (i.e. X or Wayland) or just running
> > inside
> > > >>> a
> > > >>> > Linux console. If a GUI, which window manager or desktop
> > environment?
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > I am using a GUI, gnome 40.
> > > >>> >
> > > >>>
> > > >>> OK. Emacs can run either in GUI mode (with its own frames (windows)
> > or
> > > >>> it can run inside a terminal emulator. I prefer to use it as a GUI.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> > Are you using any other assistive technology, like Orca, speakup,
> > etc?
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > Yes, I am using Orca built from the master branch from Github.
> > > >>> >
> > > >>>
> > > >>> OK, you will probably want to run Emacs in GUI mode. If you run int
> > in
> > > >>> gnome terminal, you may run into conflicts between Emacspeak and
> > Orca.
> > > >>> If you run it in GUI mode, you can have both Emacspeak and Orca
> > running
> > > >>> at the same time.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> > I have both pipewire and sox installed, although I just installed
> > it
> > > >>> after reading your email.
> > > >>> > I am using espeak-ng in conjunction with speech-dispatcher right
> > now,
> > > >>> and I just tried making the espeak engine, but I cannot find the
> > directory,
> > > >>> for
> > > >>> > unknown reasons.
> > > >>> > Furthermore, I added this line to the .emacs file i created myself
> > in
> > > >>> my home directory
> > > >>> > (load-file
> > > >>>
> > "/home/francisco/.cache/yay/emacspeak/src/emacspeak-54.0/lisp/emacspeak-setup.el")
> > > >>> > Did I do something stupid?
> > > >>> > Thanks for any answer.
> > > >>> > best regards.
> > > >>> > Francisco.
> > > >>> >
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Emacspeak is one of those few programs which are far better run
> > directly
> > > >>> from the git repository. I would uninstall any Emacspeak package you
> > > >>> have installed with yay or pacman. Instead, do the following
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Check out the Emacspeak git repository into a directory in your home
> > > >>> directory e.g.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> git clone https://github.com/tvraman/emacspeak .
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Then change into the native-espeak directory with
> > > >>>
> > > >>> cd emacspeak/servers/native-espeak
> > > >>>
> > > >>> and run make to build the espeak shared library used by Emacspeak.
> > You
> > > >>> will need the tcl and espeak development files. I'm not sure what the
> > > >>> convention is under Arch, but under Debian/Ubuntu, these are usually
> > > >>> called something like libespeak-dev and tcl8.6-dev or similar. If the
> > > >>> make runs without errors, you then need to verify the server works by
> > > >>> changing into the servers directory and running the command ./espeak.
> > > >>> You should here the espak server speak the version and then be left
> > at a
> > > >>> tcl promp e.g. a %. You can then enter
> > > >>>
> > > >>> q {Hello World} <enter>
> > > >>> d <enter>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> and you should here the server speak "hello world". If this all
> > works,
> > > >>> then you need to change into the root of the emacspeak repository and
> > > >>> run the following commands
> > > >>>
> > > >>> make clean
> > > >>> make config
> > > >>> make
> > > >>>
> > > >>> This will configure and build the emacspeak sources.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Then delete the .emacs file you created and create a directory within
> > > >>> your home directory called .emacs.d e.g.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> mkdir ~/.emacs.d
> > > >>>
> > > >>> then use a text editor of choice and create a file within that
> > directory
> > > >>> called init.el I use vi for little tasks like this. The vi editor is
> > a
> > > >>> handy editor to be familiar with because you will always find it
> > > >>> installed on a Linux system. However, it has an unusual modal editing
> > > >>> mode which can be confusing at first. Any text editor will work. Some
> > > >>> people like nano e.g.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> vi ~/.emacs.d/init.el
> > > >>>
> > > >>> In that file, add the following lines
> > > >>>
> > > >>> (add-to-list 'load-path (expand-file-name "~/emacspeak/lisp"))
> > > >>> (setenv "DTK_PROGRAM" "espeak")
> > > >>> (setenv "EMACSPEAK_DIR" (expand-file-name "~/emacspeak")
> > > >>> (load-file (expand-file-name "~/emacspeak/lisp/emacspeak-setup.el"))
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Save the file and then you should hear Emacspeak speaking when you
> > start
> > > >>> emacs. There is a lot more you can configure and you will want to add
> > > >>> lots more to your init.el file, but to start with, this should be
> > > >>> sufficient.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> > On Fri, Jul 23, 2021 at 12:32 AM Tim Cross via Emacspeak <
> > > >>> emacspeak@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >  Hi,
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >  Welcome to the list. I'll start with a couple of questions which
> > > >>> might help
> > > >>> >  provide more accurate information when you have more questions.
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >  1 Have you used Emacs before? Emacs is a bit different to most
> > > >>> editors and can
> > > >>> >  be a little daunting at first. Understanding what level of
> > > >>> familiarity you
> > > >>> >  have with the editor can help with deciding what level of
> > > >>> detail/information
> > > >>> >  you need.
> > > >>> >  2 Are you running under a GUI (i.e. X or Wayland) or just running
> > > >>> inside a
> > > >>> >  Linux console. If a GUI, which window manager or desktop
> > environment?
> > > >>> >  3 Are you using any other assistive technology, like Orca,
> > speakup,
> > > >>> etc?
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >  I"ll start by saying I have no experience with pipeWire, so what
> > > >>> follows has a
> > > >>> >  lot of guesswork and assumptions in it.
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >  The only part of Emacspeak which needs to know anything about the
> > > >>> underlying
> > > >>> >  audio infrastructure is the text-to-speech synthesizer and
> > playing of
> > > >>> auditory
> > > >>> >  icons via some 'generic' play program, like sox or pulseAudio
> > paplay
> > > >>> or Alsa aplay
> > > >>> >  programs. For the TTS synthesizer, if you can get
> > espeak/espeak-ng to
> > > >>> work, your
> > > >>> >  80% there. If you have some program on your system which can play
> > > >>> *.wav files,
> > > >>> >  then your 90% there - the rest will just be a little configuration
> > > >>> tweaking.
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >  Of course, how well it works with pipeWire is another question. A
> > lot
> > > >>> will
> > > >>> >  depend on the latency of the system. Early pulseAudio versions had
> > > >>> some problems
> > > >>> >  in this area, but I've been using it with Emacspeak now for years
> > > >>> without any
> > > >>> >  problems at all. As pipeWire is still fairly immature, you are
> > likely
> > > >>> to run
> > > >>> >  into similar issues initially.
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >  Emacspeak relies on external programs for speech and playing of
> > > >>> auditory icons.
> > > >>> >  It doesn't really need to know about the underlying sound
> > > >>> infrastructure.
> > > >>> >  Provided you can get these external programs working, you have a
> > good
> > > >>> chance you
> > > >>> >  will be able to get Emacspeak working. However, you may need to do
> > > >>> some
> > > >>> >  additional configuration - especially for auditory icons, in the
> > > >>> sense of
> > > >>> >  tweaking the variables in Emacspeak which control what programs
> > and
> > > >>> arguments
> > > >>> >  are used to play the icons.
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >  Here is what I would do -
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >  1 Verify you can use espeak from the command line. This is
> > critical.
> > > >>> If you cannot get espeak to work from a CLI, you are sunk.
> > > >>> >  2 If espeak works from the command line, you next need to verify
> > you
> > > >>> can build
> > > >>> >  the espeak TCL interface library in servers/native-espeak by
> > > >>> switching into
> > > >>> >  that directory and running make. This assumes you have all the
> > > >>> necessary
> > > >>> >  dependencies installed. The default setup of the Makefile is
> > > >>> configured to
> > > >>> >  work well under Debian/Ubuntu and may need a little tweaking for
> > > >>> Arch. The
> > > >>> >  main problem people run into here is not having the necessary
> > build
> > > >>> >  dependencies installed or in the paths searched when compiling -
> > this
> > > >>> >  includes the espeak dev libraries and the Tcl dev libraries.
> > > >>> >  3 If you are able to successfully build the espeak server, you
> > then
> > > >>> need to
> > > >>> >  verify it is working by changing into the servers directory and
> > > >>> running
> > > >>> >  ./espeak. You should here the server speak, saying that it is
> > running
> > > >>> and
> > > >>> >  be left at a Tcl prompt where you can enter some commands to queue
> > > >>> some text
> > > >>> >  to speak and then speak it. You can queue some text for speaking
> > by
> > > >>> doing q {Hello world} [enter] and then d [enter] and you should
> > > >>> >  here the speech
> > > >>> >  "Hello world".
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >  If you get to this point, you have a mostly working Eaacspeak
> > setup.
> > > >>> The
> > > >>> >  next thing you will need to do is set various variables to play
> > > >>> auditory icons.
> > > >>> >  Personally, I just use the sox program to do this. However, both
> > alsa
> > > >>> and pulse
> > > >>> >  audio have CLI programs to play basic *.wav files. I expect
> > pipeWire
> > > >>> probably
> > > >>> >  has something equivalent - you will just need to configure
> > Emacspeak
> > > >>> to use it.
> > > >>> >  Note that Emacspeak works fine without auditory icons - they are
> > an
> > > >>> optional
> > > >>> >  enhancement which provide some valuable feedback, but are not
> > > >>> essential.
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >  Good luck!
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >  Regards,
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >  Tim
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >  â??
> > > >>> >  Tim Cross
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >  For gor sake stop laughing, this is serious!
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >  From: Cisco Tissera via Emacspeak
> > > >>> >  Subject: [Emacspeak] Introducing myself and a request
> > > >>> >  To: emacspeak@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > >>> >  Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 06:29:03 +1000
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >  Hello everyone,
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >  My name is Francisco, and I am a highschool student who started
> > > >>> getting into Linux a few months ago.
> > > >>> >  I started with Arch, switched to Ubuntu, Fedora, and then
> > returned to
> > > >>> Arch Linux.
> > > >>> >  I would like to get up and running with emacspeak so I can see
> > what
> > > >>> it can and can't do, and see if it suits my needs, however, I
> > cannot, and
> > > >>> >  here is why: I am using pipewire on arch linux as of now.
> > > >>> >  When I wrote on the blinux mailing list, linux for blind, I got
> > told
> > > >>> that sadly emacspeak does not work with pipewire yet.
> > > >>> >  <I do not have any intention of removing pipewire and installing
> > > >>> pulseaudio, because that would disrupt my workflow for far too long.
> > > >>> >  As of now I am using arch linux with gnome 40 and orca master.
> > > >>> >  Now, after all that has been said, I'd like to ask if anything
> > could
> > > >>> be done about emacspeak to make it work with pipewire.
> > > >>> >  I have no coding knowledge so I won't be able to help in the
> > > >>> development, if any will be done, but I will surely test out the git
> > > >>> package in the
> > > >>> >  aUR or whatever if you so ask of me.
> > > >>> >  Best regards.
> > > >>> >  Francisco.
> > > >>> >  _______________________________________________
> > > >>> >  Emacspeak mailing list -- emacspeak@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > >>> >  To unsubscribe send an email to emacspeak-leave@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > >>>
> > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Emacspeak mailing list -- emacspeak@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > >> To unsubscribe send an email to emacspeak-leave@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > >>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Emacspeak mailing list -- emacspeak@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > To unsubscribe send an email to emacspeak-leave@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > >
> > > [1.2  <text/html; UTF-8 (quoted-printable)>]
> > > [2  <text/plain; us-ascii (7bit)>]
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Emacspeak mailing list -- emacspeak@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > To unsubscribe send an email to emacspeak-leave@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > --
> > Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
> > How do
> > you spend it?
> >
> >          John Covici wb2una
> >          covici@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> [2  <text/html; UTF-8 (quoted-printable)>]

--
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici wb2una
         covici@xxxxxxxxxxx