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[Emacspeak] Re: Speech-enabled real time collaborative editing?

Tim Cross <theophilusx(a)gmail.com> writes:

1+ on everything you say Tim -- pair  programming works at a higher
level, ie one person driving at the keyboard, the other sitting beside
and watching/thinking. That's what I've always done, and if you Google,
some of the best engineers in the world that I know work in this manner;
eg Google for articles about Jeff Dean and Sanjay -- two of Google's
most senior engineers.

Pair programming isn't about two programmers simultaneously writing a
 "for" loop with one person writing "i" for the loop variable while the
 other writes "j":-)

Git at a fine-grained level, with a separate voice channel for talking
(in the case of telecommuting or remote working) is what I recommend as
an augmentation to Git.

More broadly, I've never seen "collaborative editing" really work for
anyone   at scale -- what people depend on is "immediate refresh" where
one person edits, the other sees what they are editing and this can be
pretty well achieved with Git, in fact updates at that resolution are
likely less confusing.

The other model, seeing each character as the other person types reminds
 me of Unix Talk from back in the 80's -- it sounds nice, but was never
 pleasant. (You actually saw your partner backspacing in that mode of
 > This is a difficult one to solve. I never found collaborative or pair
> programming much use (I think it is probably much more beneficial for
> sighted users). When I did do it, I used the tmux method linked to on
> that page you referenced. We used spacemacs because it can be configured
> to support both VI (evil mode) and normal Emacs key bindings at the same
> time (few non-emacs users are comfortable with Emacs key bindings, but
> many are comfortable with VI bindings and modal interface). Essentially,
> it is like running Emacs in a terminal and you just configure it with
> emacspeak. The other person connects to your tmux session running emacs.
> It works OK, but there is a bit of a learning curve with tmux. I have
> tried some of the other methods outlined on the wiki page, but never had
> great success and they were much harder to get working. The hardest part
> was getting the tmux session working as I had problems getting Orca to
> work well at that level. However, I have some sight, so was able to
> muddle through using a large screen and magnifying glass. In my case,
> the collaboration was over the Internet, so also had to sort out
> firewalls and port forwarding, but that was fairly straight-forward.
> I have had better success with a 'modified' pair programming model.
> Rather than both being able to edit the same document at the same time,
> we used a shared git repository and switched between who had actual
> editing control. We used google meetup at the same time so that we are
> able to communicate in real time. One person would write the code,
> verbalising what they were doing (at a high level, not letter for
> letter/word for word). When it was time to swap roles, the one doing the
> editing would commit what they did and push it so that the other could
> do a pull and start editing. We found this worked really well. This is
> actually more in line with the pair programming practice. It isn't about
> both people editing at the same time, but more about one doing the
> editing while both discuss and the second making suggestions when the
> one doing the editing is 'stuck'. If you have some sight, it can also be
> useful for the one doing the editing to share their screen. The hardest
> thing to learn with pair programming is to shut up and watch/listen. I
> found this sort of model a lot more rewarding as it often opened me up
> to alternative solutions and having someone to bounce ideas off in real
> time can be refreshing compared to hours of coding on your own. 
> Tim
> <codeofdusk(a)gmail.com> writes:
>> Hello,
>> What are people using for real time shared editing, such as for pair
>> programming? Would be nice if it interoperated with other editors
>> (Atom, Visual
>> Studio Code) but not essential.
>> I found this page on the Emacs wiki, which didn’t seem very promising, especially for speech enablement…
>> Bill
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