[Emacspeak] Re: Emacspeak and Mac OS

[Tim Cross <theophilusx@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Till,

when I read your message, I had already done those steps. For me, the
key was I actually had to uninstall python3 and start from scratch
again. I have no idea why it didn't work initially and it did take me a
couple of goes until I managed to get all the bits purged (I think some
of the problem was due to stuff in ~/Library/Caches and
~/Library/python in addition to the homebrew directories.

As you point out, there are recommendation to use virtual environments,
which may be the correct approach, but it seems like a lot of additional
complexity which I don't think should be required. However, in this day
of snap and flatpak package 'containers', perhaps I'm just out of step.

What I think really causes confusion and leads to fragility is there
seems to be multiple approaches to both how you install packages and how
you crate/manage virtual environments, combined with a real problem with
API stability. I'm not sure I've come across a language with as many
version issues. CL is a language which also has a number of different
ways to manage packages and do installations. However, it doesn't suffer
from the versioning issues which seem to afflict Python.

With python the different package management and even virtual
environment management approaches are not interchangeable and you need
to be consistent or you get all sorts of weird and difficult to track
down problems. To some extent, the virtual environment approach feels
very much like a way to address the symptoms rather than fix the cause.

Just for the record and to help avoid others running into similar, I
should also say that it appears the mac server is not compatible with
Python 3.10. I tried out that version because there are a number of
deprecation warnings associated with pythong3.9, especially wrt package
installation. Unfortunately, while running under python3.10 did look
promising and the server would start and initially speak, it then just
exists and won't produce speech. No errors or warnings are shown. Exact
same setup with 3.9 seems to work fine.

Till Fabian Blesik via Emacspeak <emacspeak(a)emacspeak.org> writes:

> Hey Tim, 
>
>  
>
> sorry if I did not explicate that clearly enough but I thought in my initial response I conveyed that I am using Python 3.9
> and install pyobjc was the only requirement to install.
>
>  
>
> For the sake of it, I just briefly created some test environments and only running "Pip install pyobjc" is sufficient to use the
> mac speach server with all the python versions I tested: python 3.8.13, python 3.9.13 and python 3.10.4.
>
>  
>
> I understand the frustration, I initially felt similar and I still think distributions should have a shielded Python environment
> and it should be easier to bundle the environment for tool delivery - there actually is a PEP proposing a new way to handle
> environments. However, once I spent a few hours reading into it and getting the hang of it, I feel that the flexibility of
> virtual environments is pretty convenient.
>
>  
>
> Long story short: hopefully you are up and running and can use our all beloved emacspeak on the road :)
>
>  
>
> Best regards and enjoy the rest of the weekend,
>
> Till
>
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 31. Juli 2022 um 06:30 Uhr
> Von: "Tim Cross via Emacspeak" <emacspeak(a)emacspeak.org>
> An: "Tyler Spivey" <tspivey(a)pcdesk.net>
> Cc: emacspeak(a)emacspeak.org
> Betreff: [Emacspeak] Re: Emacspeak and Mac OS
>
> Thank you Tyler, that was exactly the information I needed. Having
> confirmation that 3.9 works, together with installing pyobjc got me
> there. I did need to completely uninstall python to get a clean
> environment, but that seems to be SOP for python. Once I had your
> confirmation, I knew it was just necessary to persevere and know I was
> not being defeated by version incompatibilities etc.
>
> Tyler Spivey via Emacspeak <emacspeak(a)emacspeak.org> writes:
>
>> Here's what I just did to get it working, from scratch, on a mac that has never had
>> emacspeak installed.
>> First, I ran brew uninstall python3 to remove Python 3.
>> To make sure it's completely gone, I ran rm -rf /opt/homebrew/lib/python3.9 (this
>> directory will differ depending on what Python version and where your homebrew is).
>> 1. brew install python3
>> This installed Python 3.9.
>> 2. which python3 -- for me, returns /opt/homebrew/bin/python3
>> 3. pip3 --version -- returns the correct pip for Python 3.9
>> After cloning emacspeak:
>> 4. python3 servers/mac -- returns ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'Foundation'
>> 5. pip3 install pyobjc -- installs a bunch of stuff
>> 6. python3 servers/mac -- talks, and the server works.
>>
>>
>> On 7/30/2022 6:16 PM, Tim Cross via Emacspeak wrote:
>>> Raman,
>>> I would still like to know what versions of python 3 are supported by
>>> the mac speech server. Answer to that question may well result in me not
>>> expressing my frustration with Python, a language I dislike immensely!
>>> "T.V Raman" <raman(a)google.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Rants usually lead to confusion and generate heat -- not light; so
>>>> please keep your language dislikes and likes off the table.
>>>>
>>>> On your older Mac with Python 2.7, just replace servers/mac in your git
>>>> checkout or install with servers/mac from an older emacspeak,
>>>> e.g. Emacspeak 55.
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