Re: audio icons work everywhere except w3m.

["krishnakant Mane" <krmane@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

On 02/11/06, Tim Cross <tcross@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> I get the point of what you are after, but I get the feeling you are
> missing the main point of open source software. If there is a feature
> which you feel would be good to add to the system, the solution is to
> go ahead an implement it.
what's the point doing some thing which has already been done in a
much better way?  I am just trying to understand things.
I had initially found it difficult to understand how the audio icons work.
and since I am now using the alsa version of eflite, I suppose I must
be able to listen to audio icons.  again as I said I am trying to
understand some thing I haven't seen working after using the
documentation of course.
however if the case is that I am not actually hearing the audio icons,
then I need to know how they will be available once eflite (alsa
version) is being used?
> I'm also not sure if you are actually hearing audio icons or just the
> beep that emacs does with some operations. If you have auditory icons
> working, you should hear more different sounds that just beeps. I'd
> suggest going into the directory which contains the wave files and
> playing them so that you get an idea of what the range of different
> icons is.
I am only hearing beeps in different pitch.  for example when doing c
coding, I hear some high beeps for indented lines and low beeps for
normal blank lines.
> Some points I'd like to raise for consideration are
>
> 1. This is emacspeak and not Jaws. It uses a different philosophy and
> a different approach. It is not designed to be a dumb screen reader
> like jaws and I think its a mistake to make comparisons - better to
> try to consider what outcome is required and possibly adopt a
> different approach which may even be better. For example, you may be
> able to achieve what you want through the use of xslt etc.
I am not trying to compare any thing.  just want to know what is "the
more smarter way " from the more experienced people.  since I did not
find out those smarter ways, I raised the point.
> 2. Personally, I have no need for the features you are asking for and
> wouldn't support them unless they are an option which can be toggled
> on for those who want it. I have no issue with you adding this
> functionality at all - everyones milage differs. However, I don't want
> something which adds functionality I don't need at the cost of
> performance or stability.
>
> 3. to get the most out of emacspeak, I believe you need one of the
> good quality TTS engines. While I recognise not everyone can afford
> commercial TTS engines, I don't believe such cost considerations
> should drive what feature sets emacspeak has. Many of the limitations
> you are experiencing are because of the TTS you are using and the fact
> you are not getting the major advantages of what emacspeak has to
> offer. If all you want is a free screen reader, then maybe you should
> look at linux speak-up, yasr, orca, gnupernicus screader or speech
> dispatcher.
>
> 4. Emacspeak is open source - feel free to grab the sources and
> add/modify/change whatever you like. This is what the "free" aspect
> really refers to - not the free as in it didn't cost anything.
>
> 5. I've had a bad day at work, so my temper is probably short and I'm
> possibly not being as tolerant as I should. However, I do have to say
> that it is a bit "rich" for someone with very little experience and
> understanding of the facilities and power of emacs and emacspeak to be
> argueing for new/more features when they don't yet udnerstand how to
> use what is already there. I'd like to suggest that rather than
> posting suggestions and criticisms concerning what emacspeak needs,
> you actually grab the sources and attempt to implement what you feel
> is missing. Then you can make it available for others to try and maybe
> it will get added to the main source tree. Apart from giving the
> impression you are simply a user who wants to wine about things you
> miss from jaws, it will show you are prepared to actually contribute
> more than words and things will actually happen. There are a number of
> users on this list who will be more than happy to provide guidance and
> suggestions to someone who is actually contributing to the development
> of the system. There are fewer who will continue to tolerate pointless
> comparisons with a commercial windows product. I don't believe the
> main objective of emacspeak is to provide a free clone of a windows
> screen reader - the objective is to provide an alternative, more
> powerful interface for blind users. the low cost is just a lucky
> coincidence. The objective is not simply to compete with screen
> readers or make it user friendly, but rather provide a different
> paradigm which may provide other advantages commercial screen readers
> have not considered. Emacspeak is not necessarily for everyone, but
> nor does it try to be.
ok, the moment I become very efficient in elisp, I will surely be
adding good features to emacspeak.  right now my hands are tied up
because I am a python programmer and started to learn lisp only for
helping other emacspeak users, I have no commertial profit out of
learning it.  and seams lisp or elisp is real fun to develop in, I
kind of like it now a days.  and it will be my pleasure if I can help
make emacspeak a more common every once favorite  screen reader.  it
seams to me that emacspeak has great potential to become a complete
accessibility solution for a common blind computer user.      but
while I firmly believe in the free and open source concept I believe
that I will never be able to take any open source or free software as
a religion.  if I have developed a product, I will sportingly except
critics and also if some good points are suggested.  any ways, that's
not the point at this moment and since as you said, emacspeak users
have no say about feature discussions, I wont do it again till I
become expert in elisp.  probably such packages are only ment for very
knowledgeable developers?  so may be I will be actively participating
in emacspeak development.  I really like the power emacspeak provides,
but feel more features could make it a software of the common blind
person rather than programmers like you and me.  and it is my
ashurance that I will not just argue but try to achieve it.

thanks,
Krishnakant.

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