Hi Rob,
Wow, your style sheet and settings do appear to have fixed the issue. This has
me stumped - I was obviously missing something and would swear I had tried
those exact settings before. I must have not been refreshing something or had
something wrong with my stylesheet or something else enabled or more likely, a
bit of all of the above. I cannot tell you how many frustrating hours I spent
trying to get this sorted!.
Now I've applied some of the stuff from Raman's w3-prepare file, I also find
that the epub stuff is working great! This is just fantastic as I find the
rendering of html pages from epub files much better than the old conversion of
text from PDF files. It also means that perhaps on the weekend, I might be able
to get epub and w3m working as now I have an idea what I'm aiming at and can
make sure whatever I do doesn't break existing stuff.
The really nice thing is that since machines have gotten so much faster in the
past few years, the slower rendering time of w3 compared to w3m is pretty much
unnoticeable except on really large html files.
thanks again, you have made my day!
Tim
Robert D. Crawford writes:
> I think I have the set-up you are looking for. I have the following
> variables that seem to be pertinent:
>
> '(w3-default-stylesheet "~/.w3/default.css")
> '(w3-honor-stylesheets nil)
> '(w3-user-colors-take-precedence t)
> '(w3-user-fonts-take-precedence t)
>
> I have also attached my default.css file. I have a black background
> with the paragraph text in white. Since we are both in the same boat as
> concerns vision, I think this will work for you... that is unless
> something else is in the way.
>
> Best regards,
> rdc
>
> /******************************************************************************
> ** File: default.css
> ** Purpose: Default Stylesheet for Emacs/W3
> ** Info: Copyright (c) 1995-1996 William M. Perry <wmperry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> ** Copyright (c) 1997 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
> ** Created: William M. Perry <wmperry@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Aug-31-1995
> ** Maintainer: William M. Perry <wmperry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> **
> ** This contains the top level fallback default styles for Emacs/W3
> **
> *******************************************************************************
> **
> ** To specify device-dependent styles, you must mark a section with
> ** @media devicetype { ... }
> ** If you are not using 'devicetype', then anything within the { ... }
> ** is ignored.
> **
> ** These sections are currently defined by
> ** http://www.w3.org/pub/WWW/Style/Group/WD-PRINT-961220
> **
> ** print - output for paged opaque material, and for documents viewed
> ** on screen in print preview mode
> ** screen - a continuous presentation of computer screens
> ** projector - paged presentation for projected presentations
> ** braille - for braille tactile feedback devices
> ** speech - aural presentation
> ** all - the default value, applies to all output devices
> **
> ** There are a few special Emacs/W3 sections
> **
> ** emacs - only include this chunk if you are using Emacs 19
> ** xemacs - only include this chunk if you are using XEmacs
> ** multifont - only include this chunk if you are using a multi-font capable Emacs variant
> ** unifont - only include this chunk if you are using a uni-font capable Emacs variant
> ** light - only include this chunk if you are using a light background
> ** dark - only include this chunk if you are using a dark background
> ** tty - only include this chunk if you are using a TTY
> ** ansi-tty - only include this chunk if you are using an ANSI-capable TTY
> *******************************************************************************
> **
> ** There are some things this stylesheet cannot really specify, that we
> ** must rely on the browser to explicitly handle correctly:
> **
> ** o table formatting
> ** o actually creating a hyperlink from an <a> tag and its attributes
> ** o specifying which tags open lists
> ** o inlined images
> ** o frames (perhaps with positioning)
> ** o applet/script/embed/object
> ** o horizontal rules
> ******************************************************************************/
>
> body {
> background-color: black;
> color: white;
> font-family: monospace;
> font-size: 18pt;
> }
>
> p {
> color: white;
> font-weight: normal;
> display: block;
> background-color: black;
> font-family: monospace;
> font-size: 18pt;
> }
>
> img {
> color: black;
> font-weight: bold;
> display: block;
> background-color: dodgerblue;
> font-family: monospace;
> font-size: 12pt;
> }
>
>
> br {
> display: line;
> }
>
> hr {
> display: line;
> text-align: center;
> }
>
> span {
> color: white;
> background-color: black;
> font-family: monospace;
> font-size: 18pt;
> }
>
> h1 {
> displayy: block;
> color: steelblue3;
> font-weight: bold;
> background-color: black;
> font-family: monospace;
> font-size: 30pt;
> }
>
> h2 {
> displayy: block;
> color: steelblue3;
> font-weight: bold;
> background-color: black;
> font-family: monospace;
> font-size: 26pt;
> }
>
> h3 {
> displayy: block;
> color: steelblue3;
> font-weight: bold;
> background-color: black;
> font-family: monospace;
> font-size: 22pt;
> }
>
> h4 {
> displayy: block;
> color: steelblue3;
> font-weight: bold;
> background-color: black;
> font-family: monospace;
> font-size: 18pt;
> }
>
> h5 {
> displayy: block;
> color: steelblue3;
> font-weight: bold;
> background-color: black;
> font-family: monospace;
> font-size: 16pt;
> }
>
> h6 {
> displayy: block;
> color: steelblue3;
> font-weight: bold;
> background-color: black;
> font-family: monospace;
> font-size: 16pt;
> }
>
> pre,xmp,plaintext {
> display: block;
> white-space: pre;
> color: chocolate1;
> font-family: monospace;
> background-color: black;
> font-size: 18pt;
> margin: 0px 15px
> }
>
> key,code,tt,kbd,var {
> display: block;
> color: chocolate1;
> font-family: monospace;
> background-color: black;
> font-size: 18pt;
> margin: 0px 15px
> }
>
> blockquote {
> display: block;
> margin-left: 1em;
> margin-right: 1em;
> background-color: black;
> color: white;
> font-family: monospace;
> font-size: 18pt;
> }
>
> ul {
> display: block;
> list-style: disc;
> }
>
> ol {
> display: block;
> list-style: decimal;
> }
>
> dl {
> display: block;
> }
>
> dir {
> display: block;
> }
>
> menu {
> display: block;
> }
>
> dt {
> color: white;
> background-color: black;
> font-weight: bold;
> display: line;
> font-family: monospace;
> font-size: 18pt;
> }
>
> dd {
> color: white;
> background-color: black;
> display: line;
> margin-left: 1.5em;
> font-family: monospace;
> font-size: 18pt;
> }
>
> li {
> color: white;
> background-color: black;
> display: list-item;
> margin-left: 0.5em;
> font-family: monospace;
> font-size: 18pt;
> }
>
> /* These are to make nested list items look better */
> ul ul,ol ul,ol ol,ul ol {
> display: line;
> }
>
> div {
> display: line;
> color: white;
> background-color: black;
> font-family: monospace;
> /* font-size: +8pt; */
> }
>
> strong,em,b {
> color: blue;
> background-color: black;
> font-weight: bold;
> font-family: monospace;
> /* font-size: +12pt; */
> }
>
> dfn {
> color: white;
> background-color: black;
> font-style: italic;
> font-family: monospace;
> /* font-size: +12pt; */
> }
>
> s,strike {
> color: green;
> background-color: black;
> text-decoration: line-through;
> font-family: monospace;
> /* font-size: +12pt; */
> }
>
> sub {
> text-position: sub;
> }
>
> sup {
> text-position: sup;
> }
>
> secret {
> text-transform: rot13;
> }
>
> i {
> color: orange1;
> background-color: black;
> font-style: bold;
> font-family: monospace;
> /* font-size: +12pt; */
> }
>
> u {
> color: orange;
> background-color: black;
> text-decoration: underline;
> font-style: bold;
> font-family: monospace;
> /* font-size: +12pt; */
> }
>
> center {
> color: white;
> background-color: black;
> display: line;
> text-align: center;
> font-family: monospace;
> /* font-size: +12pt; */
> }
>
> /*
> ** Hypertext link coloring
> */
>
> a:link {
> color: dodgerblue;
> font-style: bold;
> background-color: black;
> text-decoration: underline;
> font-family: monospace;
> /* font-size: +12pt; */
> }
>
> a:visited {
> color: red;
> font-style: bold;
> background-color: black;
> text-decoration: underline;
> font-family: monospace;
> /* font-size: +12pt; */
> }
>
> a:active {
> color: maroon;
> font-style: bold;
> background-color: black;
> text-decoration: underline;
> font-family: monospace;
> /* font-size: +12pt; */
> }
>
> /*
> ** Table formatting
> */
>
> table {
> display: block;
> background-color: black;
> color: white;
> }
>
> th {
> display: block;
> font-weight: bold;
> text-align: center;
> background-color: black;
> color: blue;
> font-family: monospace;
> font-size: +12pt;
> }
>
> td {
> display: block;
> text-align: left;
> color: white;
> background-color: black;
> font-family: monospace;
> /* font-size: +12pt; */
> }
>
> caption {
> color: white;
> background-color: black;
> display: block;
> text-align: center;
> font-family: monospace;
> /* font-size: +12pt; */
> }
>
> /*
> ** Various other character-level formatting issues
> */
>
> address {
> text-align: right;
> display: line;
> color: white;
> background-color: black;
> font-family: monospace;
> /* font-size: +12pt; */
> }
>
> abstract {
> font-style: bold & italic;
> text-align: indent;
> color: white;
> background-color: black;
> font-family: monospace;
> /* font-size: +12pt; */
> }
>
> quote,q,cite {
> font-style: italic;
> text-align: indent;
> color: white;
> background-color: black;
> font-family: monospace;
> /* font-size: +12pt; */
> }
>
> /*
> ** How to draw form elements.
> ** This is an extension in Emacs/W3 (and perhaps soon E-Scape)
> ** Since there are so many different types of input fields, you should be
> ** able to control formatting based on that. Enter pseudo-classes.
> **
> ** This functionality will be removed as soon as the W3C comes up with
> ** the standard way to do this, perhaps in CSS level 2.
> */
>
> input:int,
> input:float,
> input:url,
> input:password,
> input:text {
> text-decoration: underline;
> background-color: black;
> color: white;
> font-style: bold;
> font-family: monospace;
> /* font-size: +12pt; */
> }
>
> input:submit {
> color: green;
> text-decoration: none;
> font-style: bold;
> font-family: monospace;
> /* font-size: +12pt; */
> }
>
> input:reset {
> color: red;
> text-decoration: none;
> font-style: bold;
> font-family: monospace;
> /* font-size: +12pt; */
> }
>
> input:button {
> color: yellow;
> text-decoration: none;
> font-style: bold;
> font-family: monospace;
> /* font-size: +12pt; */
> }
>
> input:image {
> text-decoration: none;
> font-style: bold;
> }
>
> /*
> ** Secial styles for the Emacspeak subsystem of emacs - an incredibly cool
> ** speech synthesizer. This was contributed by T.V. Raman (raman@xxxxxxxxxxx)
> */
>
> @media speech {
> h1,h2,h3,
> h4,h5,h6 { voice-family: paul; stress: 2; richness: 9; }
> h1 { pitch: 1; pitch-range: 9; }
> h2 { pitch: 2; pitch-range: 8; }
> h3 { pitch: 3; pitch-range: 7; }
> h4 { pitch: 4; pitch-range: 6; }
> h5 { pitch: 5; pitch-range: 5; }
> h6 { pitch: 6; pitch-range: 4; }
>
> li,dt,dd { pitch: 6; richness: 6; }
> dt { stress: 8; }
> th { pitch: 6; pitch-range: 6; stress: 9; richness: 9; }
>
> pre,xmp,plaintext,key,code,tt { pitch: 5;
> pitch-range: 0;
> stress: 0;
> richness: 8;
> }
>
> em { pitch: 6; pitch-range: 6; stress: 6; richness: 5; }
> strong { pitch: 6; pitch-range: 6; stress: 9; richness: 9; }
> dfn { pitch: 7; pitch-range: 6; stress: 6; }
> s,strike { richness: 0; }
> i { pitch: 8; pitch-range: 6; stress: 6; richness: 5 }
> blockquote { pitch: 6; pitch-range: 6; stress: 6; richness: 5 }
> b { pitch: 2; pitch-range: 4; stress: 5; richness: 9; }
> u { richness: 0; }
> a:link { voice-family: betty; pitch: 3; richness: 9; }
> //pitch: 0;
> a:visited { voice-family: betty; pitch: 7; richness: 9;}
> a:active { voice-family: betty; pitch-range: 8; pitch: 8 }
> img { pitch: 6; pitch-range: 6; stress: 6; richness: 5; }
>
> } // @media speech
>
> /*
> ** All the TTY specific formatting
> */
>
> @media tty {
> /*
> ** First, handle some stuff for generic TTYs to emulate our old
> ** behaviour with w3-delimit-links and a subset of w3-delimit-emphasis
> */
>
> h1,h2,h3,
> h4,h5,h6 {
> insert-before: *;
> insert-after: *
> }
>
> a:visited{
> insert-before: "{{";
> insert-after: "}}"
> }
>
> a:link {
> insert-before: "[[";
> insert-after: "]]"
> }
>
> input:text,
> input:int,
> input:float,
> input:url,
> input:file,
> input:password,
> input:text { insert-before: "[{"; insert-after: "}]"; }
> select { insert-before: "[{"; insert-after: "}]"; }
>
> } // @media tty
>
>
> @media ansi-tty {
> /*
> ** Now comes the cool TTY stuff. You will need to be using XEmacs 19.14
> ** or later (or Emacs 19.30 under DOS) in order to get any benefit from
> ** these whatsoever. But if you are using one of these, wow, cool, eh?
> **
> ** ANSI specifies these colors, and most (all?) TTYs that support color
> ** will generally have 2 versions. One normal and one bright or 'standout'
> ** version.
> **
> ** Color R G B
> ** --------------------------
> ** white - 1.0 , 1.0 , 1.0
> ** cyan - 0.0 , 1.0 , 1.0
> ** magenta - 1.0 , 0.0 , 1.0
> ** blue - 0.0 , 0.0 , 1.0
> ** yellow - 1.0 , 1.0 , 0.0
> ** green - 0.0 , 1.0 , 0.0
> ** red - 1.0 , 0.0 , 0.0
> ** black - 0.0 , 0.0 , 0.0
> */
>
> h1,h2,h3,
> h4,h5,h6 { color : cyan }
> a:visited { color : magenta }
> a:link { color : red }
> a:active { color : yellow }
> } // @media ansi-tty
>
> @media experimental {
> table { display: table; }
> tr { display: table-row; }
> thead { display: table-header-group; }
> tbody { display: table-row-group; }
> tfoot { display: table-footer-group; }
> col { display: table-column; }
> colgroup { display: table-column-group; }
> td, th { display: table-cell; }
> caption { display: table-caption; }
> } // @media experimental
>
>
> Tim Cross <theophilusx@xxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
>
> > thanks Raman. Will look into the mime stuff.
> >
> > Unfortunately, colour themes, x-resources and face customizations are
> > all no good with w3 and have no effect. The w3 code dynamically
> > creates faces on the fly. I've looked at this stuff in the past, but
> > it is quite complicated and I tend to disappear down the rabbit whole
> > each time I try to get a handle on it. Part of the problem is that the
> > issue appears to be a combination of many smaller issues, so fixing
> > one doesn't help - you need to fix them all. Some of them are similar
> > to issues that have come up in other areas - for example, having a
> > decent metric to ensure foreground/background colours are distinct or
> > distant enough from each other to be readable, dealing with
> > inconsistent/bad style settings, recognition of some users preference
> > for a black/dark background etc etc.
> >
> > I've made several attempts to fix/improve this in the past, but either
> > get distracted or loose momentum. However, I'm very keen to get decent
> > epub support within emacspeak, so maybe there is more motivation to
> > try harder! The first thing I need to do is increase my knowledge re:
> > CSS, DOM, etc. This has not been a focus in my work for the last 10+
> > years, so I'm not up to speed in this area yet.
> >
> > Always good to have a new challenge! Just wish I could work on this
> > stuff all the time and not spend so many mind numbing hours in the
> > corporate world, where technology seems to be relegated to the
> > basement, being replaced by project managers, cloud services and
> > vendor management! If I had better cane skills and could move faster,
> > bank robbery would be a serious option.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > On 9 May 2012 01:17, T.V. Raman <tv.raman.tv@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> Mime t tweaking -- admittedly this is a mess with w3.
> >>
> >> I believe my patches included a modification where
> >> application/xhtml+xml was handled on the same lines as text/html
> >> --- you also need to customize some of the mm- variables. Check
> >> in emacspeak/tvr -- if not already there, I'll check in the
> >> settings you need.
> >>
> >> For the white-on-white problem, try switching emacs color themes
> >> --
> >> --
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5/7/12, Tim Cross <theophilusx@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>> The quick and dirty 'fix' I applied for this werror is to comment out
> >>> the two lines from w3-speak.el which require emacspeak-fix-interactive
> >>> at cimpile time. This stops the make process from exiting early and
> >>> ensures the rest of the *.el files are compiled. It does not appear to
> >>> have any dramatic impact.
> >>>
> >>> Raman, I looked at your patch from your w3 and I think your right. It
> >>> looks like all you changes do is remove some of the excessive
> >>> 'padding' w3 was doing when rendering things like lists and
> >>> blockquote. On my system, the unmodified version would put boxquote
> >>> elements and lists right over on the right hand side - so much so that
> >>> blockquotes would end up being rendered as only one or two words per
> >>> line. I found that modifying the default.css file to change all margin
> >>> settings from 5em to 1em greatly improved things.
> >>>
> >>> One remaining and extremely frustrating issue I have is that on some
> >>> pages, regardless of style sheet settings, w3 renders the page with
> >>> white background and white foreground/text or white background and
> >>> light grey text. As someone who actualy finds looking at a screen with
> >>> a white background physically painful, this is somewhat frustrating. I
> >>> did look at this a while back as it was the main reason I stopped
> >>> ujsing w3 and from memory, it is due to a bad interaction with pages
> >>> that have either forced a background colour and don't set any
> >>> text/foreground colour and/or conflicts between css settings and 'hard
> >>> coded' page settings. Maybe it is time to look at it again.
> >>>
> >>> I also suspect I have to do some MIME tweaking. When using the epub
> >>> feature, it works with some epub titles, but fails with others. In
> >>> particular, seems to fail with titles generated primarily for the
> >>> kindle. With these titles, instead of opening the content, it asks me
> >>> where to same the MIME object. Need to investigate further.
> >>>
> >>> Tim
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 8 May 2012 14:09, T. V. Raman <tv.raman.tv@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>>> this error has been around for a long time and shouldn't affect anything.
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>>> "Bart" == Bart Bunting <bart@xxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
> >>>> Â ÂBart> Raman, et al, Whilst we are discussing w3 I am seeing
> >>>> Â ÂBart> issues when doing a make on the w3 source. It appears
> >>>> Â ÂBart> to be related to emacspeak libraries not being found.
> >>>> Â ÂBart>
> >>>> Â ÂBart> Having said that w3 itself appears to work even with
> >>>> Â ÂBart> the error.
> >>>> Â ÂBart>
> >>>> Â ÂBart> Is this normal?
> >>>> Â ÂBart>
> >>>> Â ÂBart> I see this both under linux and on my mac.
> >>>> Â ÂBart>
> >>>> Â ÂBart> Here is the make error:
> >>>> Â ÂBart>
> >>>> Â ÂBart> bart@xxxxxxxxxxx:~/.emacs.d/src/w3$make cd lisp && make w3
> >>>> Â ÂBart> GNUSDIR=/usr/local/emacs/24.96/share/emacs/24.0.96/lisp/gnus/
> >>>> Â ÂBart> URLDIR=/usr/local/emacs/24.96/share/emacs/24.0.96/lisp/url/
> >>>> Â ÂBart> W3SRCDIR=. emacs -batch -q -no-site-file -l ./docomp.el
> >>>> Â ÂBart> -l
> >>>> Â ÂBart> /usr/local/emacs/24.96/share/emacs/24.0.96/lisp/url//url-vars.el
> >>>> Â ÂBart> -l ./w3-vars.el -f batch-byte-compile w3-display.el
> >>>> Â ÂBart> uncompressing url-vars.el.gz... uncompressing
> >>>> Â ÂBart> url-vars.el.gz...done Wrote w3-display.elc
> >>>> Â ÂBart> GNUSDIR=/usr/local/emacs/24.96/share/emacs/24.0.96/lisp/gnus/
> >>>> Â ÂBart> URLDIR=/usr/local/emacs/24.96/share/emacs/24.0.96/lisp/url/
> >>>> Â ÂBart> W3SRCDIR=. emacs -batch -q -no-site-file -l ./docomp.el
> >>>> Â ÂBart> -l
> >>>> Â ÂBart> /usr/local/emacs/24.96/share/emacs/24.0.96/lisp/url//url-vars.el
> >>>> Â ÂBart> -l ./w3-vars.el -f batch-byte-compile w3-speak.el
> >>>> Â ÂBart> uncompressing url-vars.el.gz... uncompressing
> >>>> Â ÂBart> url-vars.el.gz...done
> >>>> Â ÂBart>
> >>>> Â ÂBart> In toplevel form: w3-speak.el:49:1:Error: Cannot open
> >>>> Â ÂBart> load file: emacspeak-fix-interactive make[1]: ***
> >>>> Â ÂBart> [w3-speak.elc] Error 1 make: *** [w3] Error 2
> >>>> Â ÂBart>
> >>>> Â ÂBart>
> >>>> Â ÂBart> Cheers
> >>>> Â ÂBart>
> >>>> Â ÂBart> Bart
> >>>> Â ÂBart>
> >>>> Â ÂBart> "T.V. Raman" <tv.raman.tv@xxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
> >>>> Â ÂBart>
> >>>> Â Â>> Tim, Per your suggestion, I have checked in
> >>>> Â Â>> emacspeak/tvr/tvr-w3.patch --- the patch was created from
> >>>> Â Â>> my local snapshot with git diff origin/master
> >>>> Â Â>>
> >>>> Â Â>> after making sure that git pull -a claimed my local
> >>>> Â Â>> snapshot was uptodate.
> >>>> Â Â>>
> >>>> Â Â>> Glancing at the patch -- I dont see anything significant
> >>>> Â Â>> that should make w3 work here and not from the git repo.
> >>>> Â Â>>
> >>>> Â Â>> The git repo I am refering to is: git config
> >>>> Â Â>> remote.origin.url git://git.sv.gnu.org/w3.git
> >>>> Â Â>> --
> >>>> Â Â>>
> >>>> Â Â>> --
> >>>> Â Â>>
> >>>> Â Â>>
> >>>> Â Â>> On 5/7/12, Tim Cross <theophilusx@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>>> Â Â>>> Hi Raman,
> >>>> Â Â>>>
> >>>> Â Â>>> I've been attempting to get w3 working and while I've
> >>>> Â Â>>> finally got it going, it was not trivial.
> >>>> Â Â>>>
> >>>> Â Â>>> I think part of the problem is that there has been no
> >>>> Â Â>>> updates to the w3 repository since May 2008. I know there
> >>>> Â Â>>> has been a couple of patches from you and others to fix
> >>>> Â Â>>> various bugs, but hunting them down and applying them is
> >>>> Â Â>>> not easy. On this basis, I wanted to make a suggestion.
> >>>> Â Â>>>
> >>>> Â Â>>> Would it be possible for you to do a diff against the
> >>>> Â Â>>> current w3 repository code and the version of w3 you are
> >>>> Â Â>>> running and put the diffs in a w3-patches directory
> >>>> Â Â>>> within the emacspeak distribution. This would make it
> >>>> Â Â>>> esier to anyone wanting to run w3 to apply the same
> >>>> Â Â>>> patches you have been using. In addition to making it
> >>>> Â Â>>> easier for users, it may help in tracking down problems
> >>>> Â Â>>> as we will have a common base everyone is working from.
> >>>> Â Â>>>
> >>>> Â Â>>> regards,
> >>>> Â Â>>>
> >>>> Â Â>>> Tim
> >>>> Â Â>>>
> >>>> Â Â>>>
> >>>> Â Â>>> --
> >>>> Â Â>>> Tim Cross
> >>>> Â Â>>>
> >>>> Â Â>>>
> >>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> Â Â>>> To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change your
> >>>> Â Â>>> address on the emacspeak list send mail to
> >>>> Â Â>>> "emacspeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxx" with a subject of
> >>>> Â Â>>> "unsubscribe" or "help".
> >>>> Â Â>>>
> >>>> Â Â>>>
> >>>> Â Â>>
> >>>> Â Â>>
> >>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> Â Â>> To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change your
> >>>> Â Â>> address on the emacspeak list send mail to
> >>>> Â Â>> "emacspeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxx" with a subject of
> >>>> Â Â>> "unsubscribe" or "help".
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Best Regards,
> >>>> --raman
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Tim Cross
> >>>
>
> --
> Robert D. Crawford robdcraw@xxxxxxxxxxx
--
Tim Cross
Information Technology
University of New England
Phone: +61 2 6773 3210
Mobile: 0428 212217
Fax: +61 2 6773 3424
E-Mail: tcross@xxxxxxxxxxx
Web: http://www.une.edu.au/itd
---
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
Any fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a
touch of genius (and a lot of courage) to move in the opposite direction.
âAlbert Einstein
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