Emacspeak discussion list

[Parham Doustdar <parham90 AT gmail.com>]

Hi Robert,
I completely agree. I understand T. V.'s frustration after years and years of 
maintaining Emacspeak and potentially answering the same questions over and 
over. At the same time, I have to be honest, it took me 2-3 years to get to 
the point where I had enough of a rudimentary understanding of elisp and 
Emacs navigation facilities to even start attempting to understand what's 
going on.
I think the solution to this is more community members taking a role in 
helping where we can. I can see you, Victor, and Tim answering a lot of 
questions, and I always chime in where I know what's going on. If more people 
share knowledge, we can hopefully help teach people how to fish, without 
training to ask for the fish :-)
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 13, 2024, at 00:18, Robert Melton <lists AT robertmelton.com> wrote:
> 
> While I completely understanding encouraging people to not jump to email 
> first, I really learned a lot from this thread.  There is a balance to be 
> sure, but I hope people feel free to continue to bring issues to the list, 
> and hopefully some of us in the community who aren't TV can chime in and 
> help at times.  Silent lurkers might still be absorbing interesting tips.
> 
> The value watcher, elm, just those two things are worth a ton. I am just 
> putting in my two cents towards continued communication on list.
> 
> And taking partial responsibility for list exhaustion after the swiftmac 
> threads, hehe, sorry!
> 
> BTW: The emacspeak code is an amazing tool, but so is the whole of the 
> docs, often when I am ripgreping around looking for more details, I find 
> blog posts and other nuggets of wisdom giving a lot of context to the goal 
> of the feature, why it was initially created, and how I might interact with 
> it.  
> 
>> On Jan 12, 2024, at 17:17, Tim Cross (via emacspeak Mailing List) 
>> <emacspeak AT emacspeak.net> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Just wanted to re-iterate Raman's suggestion, especially reading
>> emaspeak sources.
>> 
>> I would also add that experimenting using both the scratch buffer and
>> ielm mode are extremely useful. As you read through the code, when you
>> come across code or documentation explanations you are having trouble
>> grasping, experimenting inside the ielm repl or the scratch buffer can
>> be extremely enlightening. In fact, I often find a few minutes playhing
>> with a command or function and/or setting different variable values in
>> ielm or the scratch buffer is far more productive than lots of google
>> searching. Problem with google is it cannot tell you which results are
>> bad advice or just plain wrong. In recent times, I find the rapid
>> increase in 'noise' has drastically reduced the reliability of google
>> results.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> "\"T.V Raman\"" (via emacspeak Mailing List) <emacspeak AT emacspeak.net> 
>> writes:
>> 
>>> Ack. The best resource I can point  you at are:
>>> 
>>> 1. Emacspeak sources and docs,
>>> 2. Emacs docs
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Parham Doustdar writes:
>>>> Hi Raman,
>>>> Thanks for the explanation and the changes.
>>>> You made me realise that I have no clue what goes on in the Makefile. 
>>>> I’ll learn from
>>>> the syntax and look deeper into that, thanks.
>>>> I also wanted to reassure you that I know everyone is busy, and sending 
>>>> an email is not
>>>> my first reaction to encountering an issue. That is what I hope to 
>>>> illustrate by always
>>>> including the steps that I took to debug or resolve it. When I send an 
>>>> email asking
>>>> something, it’s because either (1) I wonder if I’m understanding the 
>>>> intention
>>>> correctly or (2) my skills and Google haven’t turned up a solution, 
>>>> likely because I’m
>>>> encountering an “unknown unknown”.
>>>> I’m always very open to learning, so if you or anyone else on the list 
>>>> has concrete
>>>> steps I could take, or resources I could learn from, feel free to share 
>>>> – I commit to
>>>> taking action on getting better at solving my own problems.
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 11 Jan 2024, at 18:26, T.V Raman <raman AT google.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I've changed the  default to nil, had it set to nil in my .custom file
>>>>> which was shadowing the default.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 1. defcustom declares the variable with its default
>>>>> 2. make config puts the default into loaddefs.el
>>>>> 3. Before jumping off to send email, take some time to understand
>>>>> things, experiment etc.
>>>>> 4. Just sending me email will likely mean I'll stop responding since
>>>>> like you I too am busy.
>>>>> 5.
>>>>> --
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>