Emacspeak discussion list

[Victor Tsaran <vtsaran AT gmail.com>]

Hi.

I would like to echo the sentiment of not turning off VoiceOver automatically when Emacs is active. As Robert points out, VoiceOver's Activities feature is designed to perform such functions and more. So, it is best to leave this to the individual user. By the way, I have never seen a Mac server do such a thing, so I am very surprised to hear of the existence of the mentioned setting.

I use Emacs cask build that is default in Homebrew.

On Sun, Jan 7, 2024 at 10:37 AM Robert Melton <emacspeak AT emacspeak.net> wrote:

John--

When I first started using Emacs and Emacspeaks I tried that version and had unending issues wit h it and haven't been back to test it since.  I will add it back into my list to test.  Presently I am testing the Macports versions.

> On Jan 7, 2024, at 13:27, John Covici <covici AT ccs.covici.com> wrote:
>
> Here is the emacs verrsion I have:
> Warning: Treating railwaycat/emacsmacport/emacs-mac as a formula. For
> the cask, use railwaycat/emacsmacport/emacs-mac
> ==> railwaycat/emacsmacport/emacs-mac: stable emacs-28.2-mac-9.1, HEAD
> YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu's Mac port of GNU Emacs
> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/
> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/emacs-mac/emacs-28.2-mac-9.1 (4,116 files,
> 128.1MB) *
>  Built from source on 2023-04-06 at 21:15:41
>  From:
>  https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport/blob/HEAD/Formula/emacs-mac.rb
>
> On Sun, 07 Jan 2024 12:00:49 -0500,
> Robert Melton wrote:
>>
>> Question for the mac users on the list... what emacs are you using?
>>
>> I have been using Emacs-plus for a long time, but it seems for testing swiftmac, I am going to have to install some other versions.  The ones I know of are:
>>
>> - Brew standard Emacs (is this most popular?)
>> - Source built
>> - Macport version.
>>
>> and the one I use:
>>
>> - Emacs-plus via brew
>>
>> Are there major versions I am missing? 
>>
>>> On Jan 7, 2024, at 11:37, John Covici <covici AT ccs.covici.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yep, and this is why I thought your server was doing something
>>> strange,  but maybe its something else.
>>>
>>> On Sun, 07 Jan 2024 09:42:20 -0500,
>>> Robert Melton (via emacspeak Mailing List) wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [1  <text/plain; us-ascii (quoted-printable)>]
>>>> But this works with the "mac" python server?
>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 7, 2024, at 09:13, John Covici <covici AT ccs.covici.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a variable in the version of emacs I am using
>>>>> mac-ignore-accessibility  which seems to be no longer working with
>>>>> swiftmac -- not sure of the interaction here but there is something
>>>>> going on.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 07 Jan 2024 08:28:03 -0500,
>>>>> Robert Melton (via emacspeak Mailing List) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1  <text/plain; us-ascii (quoted-printable)>]
>>>>>> Regarding the double-speaking, modern macs have a fairly elegant solution that doesn't require any code changes, and comes with MacOS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> VoiceOver Utility lets you turn off voiceover when in certain windows.  It is rules oriented so when you leave the window it turns back on, you do these via "Activities" in the voiceover utility.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alternatively, as TV said, there are builds that seem to (bug of feature) turn off voiceover in the buffer (emacs-plus does this from brew). This has the advantage that it doesn't break menu access.  Menu access gets broken in the activity technique because you are still in emacs, so it will continue to have voiceover off.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2024, at 23:31, T.V Raman <raman AT google.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd find a speech-server  tat turns off a screenreader with which it
>>>>>>> has no relationship strange indeed; even if the Mac server does that
>>>>>>> --- something I'd find surprizing --- I'd stil suggest thinking
>>>>>>> through this carefully before apeing that behavior.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For instance, you can run the spech-server outside Emacspeak, e.g. to
>>>>>>> test the speech-server stand-alone. The speech-servver turning off
>>>>>>> other Assistive Tech in that situation would be surprizing   to the
>>>>>>> user.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Robert Melton" (via emacspeak Mailing List) writes:
>>>>>>>> Pitch shift should work on caps, I will confirm it. 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The automatically turning off, I will look at the mac server for how they do that in python, I simply have my voiceover automatically turn off for emacs, having it naturally turn off would be much better.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The punctuation work perfect for me, read out dash dash. 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2024, at 18:28, John Covici <covici AT ccs.covici.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well, I installed successfully, a few questions./problems remain.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I was hoping for capitalization to be available, by pitch changes, am
>>>>>>>>> I mistaken?  Also, voiceover is on in the emacspeak window -- isn't it
>>>>>>>>> supposed to be off in that window only automatically?  I am pretty
>>>>>>>>> sure it works that way with the default serverr.  I will also have to
>>>>>>>>> see if I am doing something wrong with my punctuation settings,
>>>>>>>>> when I was trying to reply to your email, I was not hearing any
>>>>>>>>> dashes  in a line like the following:
>>>>>>>>> --text follows this line--
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Otherwise, seems pretty good, I am even getting sounds!!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks for all yyour hard work.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 03 Jan 2024 14:29:14 -0500,
>>>>>>>>> Robert Melton wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I meant to type restart, not resetr.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Also, you will have to set swiftmac as you dtk-program
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (setq dtk-program "swiftmac")
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> or however you set yours.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2024, at 13:38, John Covici <covici AT ccs.covici.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> OK, thanks -- what do you mean by "reset emacs"?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 03 Jan 2024 13:09:49 -0500,
>>>>>>>>>>> Robert Melton (via emacspeak Mailing List) wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> [1  <text/plain; us-ascii (quoted-printable)>]
>>>>>>>>>>>> It is in the current emacspeak git version, so will go out with next major release.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If you don't want to wait, or want a more cutting edge version then use:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/robertmeta/swiftmac
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> after you get it just "make install" to build and install from the root directory, then reset emacs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> README.md and some project aspects will undergo rapid change in the next few days, as it now has shifted purpose a bit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2024, at 12:52, John Covici <covici AT ccs.covici.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, where do I get this serverr exactly and what version of emacs and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> emacspeak are required?  I do have xcode here, so is that what is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> needed to compile this?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks a lot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 03 Jan 2024 10:59:43 -0500,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert Melton (via emacspeak Mailing List) wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [1  <text/plain; us-ascii (quoted-printable)>]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey swiftmac users!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I contributed swiftmac to emacspeak proper at the last possible moment of 2023, because I wanted to do it last year. :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, I heard your feedback and while T.V. has been awesome enough to just accept my patches as long as as I stay to my Swiftmac subtree (thanks again!)... I understand that you want to continue using stable releases of Emacspeak!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, I am tweaking my Swiftmac repo to be the cutting edge version, and place to track bug reports.  When it hits nice stable points or critical bug fixes I will be pushing those up to emacspeak.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still puzzling out the best way to accomplish this, but for now I will just make the changes to emacspeak by hand when the code gets to a point I think it should be moved over.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bugs still exist, report them at https://github.com/robertmeta/swiftmac/issues
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will still be creating fat-binaries from time to time to support the users who can not run swift to build the project.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Version 2, the rewrite using the newer mac audio subsystem will be up around the end of the month under the v2 branch, but it is likely not going to be easy to use day to day unless you want to contribute and know swift.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks everyone for the support.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [2  <text/plain; UTF-8 (8bit)>]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Emacspeak discussion list -- emacspeak AT emacspeak.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send email to:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emacspeak-request AT emacspeak.net with a subject of: unsubscribe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you spend it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>   John Covici wb2una
>>>>>>>>>>>>>   covici AT ccs.covici.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> [2  <text/plain; UTF-8 (8bit)>]
>>>>>>>>>>>> Emacspeak discussion list -- emacspeak AT emacspeak.net
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send email to:
>>>>>>>>>>>> emacspeak-request AT emacspeak.net with a subject of: unsubscribe
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
>>>>>>>>>>> How do
>>>>>>>>>>> you spend it?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>    John Covici wb2una
>>>>>>>>>>>    covici AT ccs.covici.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
>>>>>>>>> How do
>>>>>>>>> you spend it?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     John Covici wb2una
>>>>>>>>>     covici AT ccs.covici.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> Emacspeak discussion list -- emacspeak AT emacspeak.net
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send email to:
>>>>>>>> emacspeak-request AT emacspeak.net with a subject of: unsubscribe
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [2  <text/plain; UTF-8 (8bit)>]
>>>>>> Emacspeak discussion list -- emacspeak AT emacspeak.net
>>>>>> To unsubscribe send email to:
>>>>>> emacspeak-request AT emacspeak.net with a subject of: unsubscribe
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
>>>>> How do
>>>>> you spend it?
>>>>>
>>>>>       John Covici wb2una
>>>>>       covici AT ccs.covici.com
>>>>
>>>> [2  <text/plain; UTF-8 (8bit)>]
>>>> Emacspeak discussion list -- emacspeak AT emacspeak.net
>>>> To unsubscribe send email to:
>>>> emacspeak-request AT emacspeak.net with a subject of: unsubscribe
>>>
>>> --
>>> Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
>>> How do
>>> you spend it?
>>>
>>>        John Covici wb2una
>>>        covici AT ccs.covici.com
>>
>>
>
> --
> Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
> How do
> you spend it?
>
>         John Covici wb2una
>         covici AT ccs.covici.com

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