Emacspeak discussion list

[Tim Cross <theophilusx AT gmail.com>]

Just in case this is useful, but with the warning it may be out-of-date
as it has been a while since I used macOS.

When I was using the mac, I ran the mac port of emacs (note, I'm not
talking about the macports package stuff similar to homebrew, but a
specific version of Emacs which has been modified to create a closer
integration into the macOS ecosystem). The reason I did this was because
that version included a command to disable voiceOver in emacs buffers.

See https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport

The important point to note is that homebrew has more than one version
of emacs, reflecting the fact that there are at least two 'flavors' of
emacs for macOS. You have the stock standard emacs, which will build
fine once you specify the correct options to configure and then you have
the mac port version, which takes the emacs code base and updates it to
create a version which is more tightly coupled into the macOS
ecosystem. The limitation of the former is that it know nothing about
macOS specific features, such as voiceOver. The limitation of the latter
is that it can have bugs specific to the mac and which are difficult to
get traction on because of fewer resources availble to track down issues
in the port version. Personally, I had no problems with the railwaycat
port, which I ran for a number of years. 

From memory, if you ran the stock standard Emacs as a GUI, you didn't
have any voiceOver problems as voiceOver didn't know about it. If you
ran it inside a terminal, you did have conflicts because voiceOver does
know about the terminal. On the other hand, if you used the mac port
version, voiceOver did know about emacs even when it did run in its own
GUI, but you also had a command to turn it off.

So, don't overlook the fact that you also have two modes of running
emacs, which can impact on how everything interacts with
voiceOver. I've also found people often do run emacs inside a terminal
because they either have not worked out how to get it to start as a GUI
or because when they tried to run it from the dock, it didn't pick up
their environment settings etc. There are some complications here which
are too detailed for this message. However, the key is to understand that
apps whihc run from the dock (and possibly finder) run in a separate
process which is not a child of your login process, so do not inherit
environment settings in your login profile. One way to get around this
problem is to add the environment values into your emacs init file using
the setenv function.

At any rate, as people work to resolve these issues, it is probably a
good idea to the explicit regarding what version of emacs and how you
are starting/running it i.e. as a GUI or within a terminal and whether
you start it from the dock, finder etc or the command line etc. 

HTH

Tim

"\"T.V Raman\"" (via emacspeak Mailing List) <emacspeak AT emacspeak.net> writes:

> I'd find a speech-server  tat turns off a screenreader with which it
> has no relationship strange indeed; even if the Mac server does that
> --- something I'd find surprizing --- I'd stil suggest thinking
> through this carefully before apeing that behavior.
>
> For instance, you can run the spech-server outside Emacspeak, e.g. to
> test the speech-server stand-alone. The speech-servver turning off
> other Assistive Tech in that situation would be surprizing   to the
> user.
>
>
>
> "Robert Melton" (via emacspeak Mailing List) writes:
>  > Pitch shift should work on caps, I will confirm it.  
>  > 
>  > The automatically turning off, I will look at the mac server for how 
> they do that in
>  > python, I simply have my voiceover automatically turn off for emacs, 
> having it
>  > naturally turn off would be much better.
>  > 
>  > The punctuation work perfect for me, read out dash dash.  
>  > 
>  > > On Jan 6, 2024, at 18:28, John Covici <covici AT ccs.covici.com> wrote:
>  > > 
>  > > Well, I installed successfully, a few questions./problems remain.
>  > > 
>  > > I was hoping for capitalization to be available, by pitch changes, am
>  > > I mistaken?  Also, voiceover is on in the emacspeak window -- isn't it
>  > > supposed to be off in that window only automatically?  I am pretty
>  > > sure it works that way with the default serverr.  I will also have to
>  > > see if I am doing something wrong with my punctuation settings,
>  > > when I was trying to reply to your email, I was not hearing any
>  > > dashes  in a line like the following:
>  > > --text follows this line--
>  > > 
>  > > Otherwise, seems pretty good, I am even getting sounds!!
>  > > 
>  > > Thanks for all yyour hard work.
>  > > 
>  > > On Wed, 03 Jan 2024 14:29:14 -0500,
>  > > Robert Melton wrote:
>  > >> 
>  > >> I meant to type restart, not resetr. 
>  > >> 
>  > >> Also, you will have to set swiftmac as you dtk-program 
>  > >> 
>  > >>  (setq dtk-program "swiftmac")
>  > >> 
>  > >> or however you set yours. 
>  > >> 
>  > >>> On Jan 3, 2024, at 13:38, John Covici <covici AT ccs.covici.com> wrote:
>  > >>> 
>  > >>> OK, thanks -- what do you mean by "reset emacs"?
>  > >>> 
>  > >>> On Wed, 03 Jan 2024 13:09:49 -0500,
>  > >>> Robert Melton (via emacspeak Mailing List) wrote:
>  > >>>> 
>  > >>>> [1  <text/plain; us-ascii (quoted-printable)>]
>  > >>>> It is in the current emacspeak git version, so will go out with 
> next major release.
>  > >>>> 
>  > >>>> If you don't want to wait, or want a more cutting edge version then 
> use:
>  > >>>> 
>  > >>>> https://github.com/robertmeta/swiftmac
>  > >>>> 
>  > >>>> after you get it just "make install" to build and install from the 
> root directory, then reset emacs.
>  > >>>> 
>  > >>>> README.md and some project aspects will undergo rapid change in the 
> next few days,
>  > >>>> as it now has shifted purpose a bit.
>  > >>>> 
>  > >>>> 
>  > >>>>> On Jan 3, 2024, at 12:52, John Covici <covici AT ccs.covici.com> 
> wrote:
>  > >>>>> 
>  > >>>>> So, where do I get this serverr exactly and what version of emacs 
> and
>  > >>>>> emacspeak are required?  I do have xcode here, so is that what is
>  > >>>>> needed to compile this?
>  > >>>>> 
>  > >>>>> Thanks a lot.
>  > >>>>> 
>  > >>>>> On Wed, 03 Jan 2024 10:59:43 -0500,
>  > >>>>> Robert Melton (via emacspeak Mailing List) wrote:
>  > >>>>>> 
>  > >>>>>> [1  <text/plain; us-ascii (quoted-printable)>]
>  > >>>>>> Hey swiftmac users! 
>  > >>>>>> 
>  > >>>>>> I contributed swiftmac to emacspeak proper at the last possible 
> moment of 2023,
>  > >>>>>> because I wanted to do it last year. :)
>  > >>>>>> 
>  > >>>>>> That said, I heard your feedback and while T.V. has been awesome 
> enough to just
>  > >>>>>> accept my patches as long as as I stay to my Swiftmac subtree 
> (thanks
>  > >>>>>> again!)... I understand that you want to continue using stable 
> releases of
>  > >>>>>> Emacspeak!
>  > >>>>>> 
>  > >>>>>> So, I am tweaking my Swiftmac repo to be the cutting edge 
> version, and place to
>  > >>>>>> track bug reports.  When it hits nice stable points or critical 
> bug fixes I will
>  > >>>>>> be pushing those up to emacspeak.
>  > >>>>>> 
>  > >>>>>> Still puzzling out the best way to accomplish this, but for now I 
> will just make
>  > >>>>>> the changes to emacspeak by hand when the code gets to a point I 
> think it should
>  > >>>>>> be moved over.
>  > >>>>>> 
>  > >>>>>> Bugs still exist, report them at 
> https://github.com/robertmeta/swiftmac/issues
>  > >>>>>> 
>  > >>>>>> I will still be creating fat-binaries from time to time to 
> support the users who
>  > >>>>>> can not run swift to build the project.
>  > >>>>>> 
>  > >>>>>> Version 2, the rewrite using the newer mac audio subsystem will 
> be up around the
>  > >>>>>> end of the month under the v2 branch, but it is likely not going 
> to be easy to
>  > >>>>>> use day to day unless you want to contribute and know swift.
>  > >>>>>> 
>  > >>>>>> Thanks everyone for the support. 
>  > >>>>>> [2  <text/plain; UTF-8 (8bit)>]
>  > >>>>>> Emacspeak discussion list -- emacspeak AT emacspeak.net
>  > >>>>>> To unsubscribe send email to:
>  > >>>>>> emacspeak-request AT emacspeak.net with a subject of: unsubscribe
>  > >>>>> 
>  > >>>>> -- 
>  > >>>>> Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question 
> is:
>  > >>>>> How do
>  > >>>>> you spend it?
>  > >>>>> 
>  > >>>>>       John Covici wb2una
>  > >>>>>       covici AT ccs.covici.com
>  > >>>> 
>  > >>>> [2  <text/plain; UTF-8 (8bit)>]
>  > >>>> Emacspeak discussion list -- emacspeak AT emacspeak.net
>  > >>>> To unsubscribe send email to:
>  > >>>> emacspeak-request AT emacspeak.net with a subject of: unsubscribe
>  > >>> 
>  > >>> -- 
>  > >>> Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question 
> is:
>  > >>> How do
>  > >>> you spend it?
>  > >>> 
>  > >>>        John Covici wb2una
>  > >>>        covici AT ccs.covici.com
>  > >> 
>  > >> 
>  > > 
>  > > -- 
>  > > Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
>  > > How do
>  > > you spend it?
>  > > 
>  > >         John Covici wb2una
>  > >         covici AT ccs.covici.com
>  > 
>  > 
>  > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>  > Emacspeak discussion list -- emacspeak AT emacspeak.net
>  > To unsubscribe send email to:
>  > emacspeak-request AT emacspeak.net with a subject of: unsubscribe